Interview by Roan Kaufman

Cheap Trick hit the Midwest like a bomb back in the 70s. They played balls-to-the-wall rock and roll that would later set the stage for punk and alterna-rock. Songs like "He’s a Whore," "ELO Kiddies," "Oh, Candy" and others still sound as raw and vital as they did over 20 years ago. In 1979 they were one of the top grossing bands, and they sold over 3.5 million copies of At Budokan in 1979.

While they are known for hits like "Surrender" and "I Want You to Want Me," Cheap Trick have never been a one hit wonder. They had several hits in the 80s and 90s and continue to rock to this day (anyone who was lucky enough to catch the Madison performance will attest to that). Their fan base includes hardcore devotees such as Billy Corogan of the Smashing Pumpkins, Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam, Kurt Cobain, Wilco, Soul Asylum, Green Day, Aerosmith, Pantera, Bob Mould, Everclear, and scads of other bands. Many people, including Howard Stern, consider "Surrender" to be one of the best rock songs ever written.

Cosmik Debris caught up with Cheap Trick drummer Bun E. Carlos in California on June 30th, 2000, the first night of their current tour.

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Cosmik: What's up with the new tour?

Carlos: We are just starting tonight. We've been in the studio the last few weeks.

Cosmik: Are you recording the new album for your own record label?

Carlos: We're recording it now and then we are going to finish in the fall and then figure out what to do with it. We have been putting stuff out on our own label and we've also been talking to a couple of major labels. And then we could always put it out online. These days there are a lot of different ways.

We also have a lot of live tracks available on musicmaker.com. People can download that music for free. We're finishing up some footage from the nights we recorded our live album (Music for Hangovers), and we have some of that footage for an upcoming DVD. And we did our 25 year anniversary show last August in Rockford--we just finished that up and hopefully will have it out this fall on DVD.

Cosmik: It sounds like things are going good these days. Was there also a period for the band when things were not going so well? I read a lot of interviews with you guys in which you talk about a period when things kind of bottomed out.

Carlos: There were the fabulous 80s when the record company hated us, and there were the fabulous early 90s when we were fighting with our manager.

Cosmik: Were you surprised that people have taken to your early music again? You are going back into the much more aggressive music and the stuff that is less pop-oriented.

Carlos: Those are always like the legendary first three albums. It is kind of funny, looking back on it, because when they came out, none of them sold very well until Budokan--and then the sales picked up. We all thought they were great.

In 1996 we put out that boxed set, and then people like Billy Corogan and the Pearl Jam guys came out--we did some gigs with them--and people like that talked about the band. So it was like a 70s revival or whatever you want to call it. It was great... like 20 years later this stuff still seems to work pretty good and it does. We recorded the records without too many gimmicks or effects and the songs are good and we didn’t mess them up. So they still sound good years later.

A lot of the 80s music was producers coming into the studio and thinking they had to make a drum sound like a cannon, and put this effect on a guitar, and have a keyboard play along. And now when you hear it, it sounds like the 80s. It doesn’t help much. There is a lot of great stuff on our records from the 80s, but Tom wasn't in the band and that made a difference. When there is only three of the original four, then you are missing something. As good as John is and still is, it was missing something without Tom.

Cosmik: What is life like when you are not on the road?

Carlos: I collect drums at home. I still live in the Rockford area. I am a big music fan so I collect records--I try to listen to a lot of music, and by listening, you end up collecting a lot of stuff. I've been collecting drums for the past 20 years which has gotten out of hand lately.

Cosmik: Aren’t you guys trying to do less gigs and stay off the road a bit more?

Carlos: Yes, we've been trying to play less the past years and get more for it. We are trying to pick our gigs a little better. In 1997 we put out an indie album on Red Ant records. That same year we did 200 gigs that year. And at the end of the year we figured that we had played in Scranton, PA, three times that year, and we got the key to city from the mayor who got on stage and sang "Hang on Sloopy" with us. It was really apparent that this was not going to get us what we wanted, so we switched management and switched booking agencies and told them what we wanted to do: work on our new material and not tour 200 dates a year. Touring that much is a younger person's game. So recently we've been taking off more time to write and be by ourselves.

Cosmik: Don't you ever just get sick of the other guys in the band?

Carlos: If you do 200 shows in a year, by the end of the tour you will be bickering--you just start to get on each other's nerves. But it isn't a big deal, brothers and sisters bicker. We deal with it.

Cosmik: I was also reading recently that you had to tour a lot because you didn't have a lot of money and the record company gave you a bad deal.

Carlos: Well, when the records didn't sell, then 100% of your income is coming from the gigs. Our back catalog for a long time wasn't recouped. In our opinion, some of our past managers wanted us out on the road because they get paid a percentage of the money they can generate--so a lot times they don't care how they get it. So sometimes they are doing deals that are not with you in the best light.

But I think if we wanted to, we could retire at any time. But here we are, we’ve got this great back catalog and we know it is selling a lot of records, but we didn’t think it was being handled properly. Sony put out a bunch of those mid-priced CDs, the ones you see at truck stops, and we were thinking, "Come on, guys, what are you doing shooting yourself in the foot?" They cheapen the whole catalog when they do that. With any artist the same thing happens, and you wonder why they do it.

We are now trying to take better care of our catalog. And now Legacy, the Sony label that owns a lot of our early recordings, are working with us to a certain extent.

Cosmik: You guys certainly seem smart--like you were not drug addicts or guys who blew a lot of money impulsively.

Carlos: We are certainly smarter now than we used to be. We're musicians, not businessmen, so we made some boner moves and now we are trying to retain as much of our catalog as possible. We are getting along with that part of it.

Cosmik: You are doing some interesting gigs on this tour, like Bike Week in Sturgis, SD.

Carlos: That is at Buffalo Chip campground. Yeah, it is guys and their bikes, that is a good crowd. Those people pay a lot of money to hear us and we like it. There is always a few goofy ones in there. We've done Rib Fest's and stuff like that.

Cosmik: Does it get depressing to play outside in the daytime? Is it like Spinal Tap opening for the puppet show?

Carlos: Yeah, but we are getting paid a hell of a lot more than you could imagine. So if we tour for three or four months, sometimes we do an odd gig--but then when I find out how much we are getting paid, it is no problem. There are all sorts of gigs and not every one of them is going to be the ideal gig. We learned to deal with that back in the 70s.

Cosmik: It seems like that arena rock thing is becoming a thing of the past. You guys are one of the only bands from that era that are still rocking out.

Carlos: It is hard to keep it going and be able to do it full time. It is tough to do it when you are our age.

Cosmik: Are you putting out new products?

Carlos: We just want to make sure our music is marketed properly and available for our fans. You get to be our age and we don't want to be known as an oldies act. We want to keep doing new music.

Cosmik: Your new music is really hard edged--some of the punk stuff.

Carlos: We really got pushed away from that type of music in the 70s and 80s. The record company wanted us to be a pop act. They didn't want to know about anything too heavy or too hard.

Cosmik: What kind of stuff do you listen to?

Carlos: Me and Tom listen to a lot of rock. I like a lot of the alternative country stuff like Son Volt and Wilco. I drummed a couple of songs behind Jay Tweety and John Bennet from Wilco last week in Chicago for a benefit concert--it was a lot of fun. Bob Mould got up and did a couple of tunes. It was Nick Turner's benefit. Bob did "If I Can Change Your Mind" and "Cinnamon Girl" by Neil Young. It is great to be able to have the opportunity to do that type of thing. He has never gotten the respect he deserves. I liked Husker Du, but they were neighboring competition.

Cosmik: Tell us about the 25 year Anniversary Concert in Rockford.

Carlos: For that, we had the Rockford Symphony. It was a lot of fun, and we did three sets and over 30 songs. We had Robin's high school choir come up and sing one of his songs from his solo album. Rick's boys were up playing stuff. Slash was there. Art Alexakis from Everclear came--he is a big fan. Billy Corogan came up and did a tune too. It was a lot of fun, the footage looks good, and the mix sounds great. We did a 72-track taping. The DVD will be 5.1 sound.

Cosmik: What happened with your fan club concerts? There were several during the 90s.

Carlos: Yeah, we would have meet'n'greets. We did the three-night thing a few years ago, one album each night--from the first three albums. When we did it in Chicago at the Metro, there was a question and answer period after the show for people who bought all three nights. We have a pretty good fan service.

Cosmik: What about Trickfest--the multi-day fan club meetings where you guys played and put on several special events?

Carlos: We did three of them in about six years. For a couple of days we would have question-and-answer times and autograph signings; we would do request-only shows so they could hear all the songs we never play. We had about 400 or 500 people. We charged between $50 and $75 for all three days. We would get all the old merchandise from our storage unit--the All Shook Up lunch bags, backpacks, and all this goofy merchandise. All the merchandise we've been sitting on for 25 years.

The events are a lot of work for the band. We have to learn a lot of songs you are only going to play once. Last time we did 90 minutes of cover tunes we used to play in bars in the 70s, and at the same time we were working on the 25 year anniversary show. So we had to learn 50 songs in one week--it added up to be a ton of work. So we probably won't do another one for a few years.

Cosmik: Is it hard for you when fans go crazy for you or when people scream your name, etc?

Carlos: A lot of people are like that, but then once they get to know me then they want to know why we are not doing their favorite song, why you are wearing a white pair of shoes, that sort of thing. I am a big music fan. I used to sneak into gigs with the roadies to Who gigs and Cream gigs back in the 60s. I know where these people are coming from. But this is all a lot of fun.

Cosmik: Looking back on your life as a musician, what are some of your top highlights?

Carlos: Probably drumming for Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley and John Lennon. I played behind the Shirelles back at a bar in Madison called the Whiskey, a strip bar back in 73. We backed up a couple of strippers.

Meeting bands was always fun, but sometimes you meet your heroes and they turn out to be complete jerks. We did three weeks with the Kinks in 1977 and I had every Kinks album up until then. Then the next 10 years I didn't buy another Kinks album because they were such assholes. But I got over it.

We did one gig with The Who in 1979 with us, AC/DC, the Scorpions, Molly Hatchet and a lot of others. It was really neat. We headlined the Redding festival in England one year.

Probably the neatest thing was having Roy Wood and Dave Edmunds get up and jam with us. All sorts of English rock heroes.

Cosmik: What's up next?

Carlos: We're looking forward to this four-month tour and then we'll probably do a bunch of gigs right around the winter holidays. We're looking forward to getting back in the studio and finishing up this new music we've recorded. We're working on our new recording with Steve Albini in Chicago.

Cosmik: How did your friendship with him come about?

Carlos: With Albini he will record Page and Plant or Bush and then get a bunch of money and so he can then afford to record a bunch of young bands who really need his help. We did a couple of bonus tracks with him for a SubPop single a few years ago. We recorded that in 96 or 97 and it turned out really good and we liked working with him. So a couple of years ago we went back and did some tunes with him in the studio. Then a few months ago we called him up again and told him we were ready to go back into the studio--he has a studio called Electronic Audio in Chicago and it is really nice. And then we also recorded with Jack Douglas, the guy who did our first album. Albini is fun--he likes the band, and we like the same things.

Cosmik: I’ve been wondering if you guys will ever do a VH-1: Behind the music thing. Have they ever approached you?

Carlos: We get asked to do Behind the Music every season, but there is no way we want to go air our dirty laundry and then go back to our hometown and hang out. Forget it. The record is not that far off. What people want is the dirt, but if you spill all the dirt then everyone wants to kill you. I might do it when I'm 70, but by then no one will care.

(C) 2000 - Roan Kaufman