Pete Miser is an underground hip hop phenomenon hailing from New York via Portland. His newest album, Camouflage is Relative, is getting critical acclaim from everyone from Chuck D. down to almost every Internet music zine. And why not? It's loaded with intelligent, gripping stories wrapped around tasty beats, with subject matter as diverse as criminal Presidents ("Old News,") being checked out by a cutie from Jersey ("I See You,") and discovering you're a robot with all your memories programmed in ("Scent of a Robot"). A far cry from today's traditional "gangstas and hoes" fare. Recently, I had the chance to chat up the busy M.C..

Cosmik: Where did you get the title "Camouflage is Relative"?

Pete: The title comes from a conversation with my friend John, who designed the album cover. We were perusing some design magazines and came across a photo of some hunter dude in a camouflage ninja suit with fake leaves hanging off of it and stuff. The funny thing is, he was standing in front of a white seamless background in a photo studio. I looked at it and said to John, "Camouflage really is relative, isn't it?" We both started cracking up and realized that that should be the name of the album. It wasn't a particularly significant title at the time but since deciding to name the album that, I've noticed how many people are wearing camouflage as a fashion statement. I mean, outside of the usual suspects. Yuppies rock that shit like it was the new cashmere! Funny how a good war can really inform the fashion sense of a young urban professional.

Cosmik: Tell me about how you and John Lee went about choosing and designing the album art? There's some really interesting stuff going on with the cover, and the artwork inside is great, too. How much of the illustration did you do yourself?

Pete: As you may be aware, I've done the design work for most of my releases, so when John volunteered to design Camouflage Is Relative, I was excited to have something other than what I would normally do. With that in mind, I pretty much left it up to him. He showed me ideas and asked for my opinion but I didn't want it to be a Pete Miser design. I flew my brother, Chris [Ho], out to take photos -- he's a photographer [www.chrishophoto.com] -- and handed John tons of photos and sketches by me and my friends, Maceo Eagle and Matt Wright. In the end, John used about five of my pieces and several pieces by Matt and Maceo. It ended up being a real family effort.

Cosmik: I've noticed that there isn't as much scratching on the new album. Are you moving in a new direction?

Pete: I wouldn't say that I'm moving in a new direction. I use turntables as an instrument. Some songs call for that instrument, others don't. There's probably more turntablism on the album than you're aware of, but it isn't necessarily used in the same way as on Radio Free Brooklyn. On Radio Free Brooklyn, scratching was part of a lot of the choruses. Because of sampling issues, I didn't scratch so many prominent samples into this album. It bums me out a little that I'm watching what I do creatively to avoid bullshit legal hassles but, oh well. I'm glad I'm capable of making good music without relying on the wicky wicky wicky. Nonetheless, turntables will always play a major role in what I do musically.

Cosmik: It still sounds tight as shit. Necessity is the mother of invention. How many of your samples do you actually create on your own?

Pete: Almost all of Camouflage Is Relative is live instruments. It used to be a tip off when you heard record noise that you were listening to a sample. On this album, the more record noise you hear, the more likely that it's a live instrument meant to sounds dirty like an old sample!

Cosmik: Do people ever come to you with beats they've made and try to give them or sell them to you?

Pete: People hit me with beats relatively often. I'm really picky with beats, so it's rare that I get down with other people's stuff. A lot of hip hop producers seem lazy to me. It's common for cats to just grab a loop and put some drums under it. Something like that isn't likely to go on my album for legal sample reasons. If something isn't likely to go on an album then it goes down on my priority list. This isn't to say that I'm not open to recording on other people's beats, it's just that it's hard to make a beat that I want to rhyme over and most of the ones that I do want to rhyme over have sample clearance issues.

Cosmik: How has touring with Dido influenced your solo career? Do you think it helped you out, or are you still struggling with things?

Pete: Touring with Dido has significantly affected my solo career in that I've seen first hand how the major league music industry works. It makes me realize that, until I'm doing things on that level, I'm just a dude making music for my own entertainment. In a way it's kind of liberating. I don't have to take this so seriously. I can do whatever I want, creatively. There's no label to tell me to do otherwise. I'd like to see what would happen if my music was put in the ears of millions of people internationally. I wonder how people would respond. Until then, it's strictly DIY.

But if you mean "did Dido hook you up," then, no, not really. I mean, she did in the context of providing me with a great living for the years that I worked with her but I haven't enjoyed any solo career benefits from it. I think our worlds are too different or something.

Cosmik: Would you considering going back out on tour with her again in the future?

Pete: Of course! She's crazy talented, a great person and fun to hang out with. That's the major criteria for me to want to work with someone.

Cosmik: What do you think the chances of that are?

Pete: I was in her band as part of the rhythm section. The turntables were essentially a percussion/drum instrument in her songs so I really wasn't playing my music at all and no one would be aware of my music by seeing me with Dido. I guess that's one of the reasons I'm happy to be doing my own thing. I'm not really the best side man. I have too much to say!

Cosmik: It could be the only way people outside of Portland and NYC have a chance to see you spin live.

Pete: As far as getting on the road is concerned, Camouflage Is Relative Might give me some legs and help me get on the road but it typically works the other way around, that touring gives the album legs and spreads the word. I think the thing that will get me on the road soonest is if I hook up with a bigger label that can help subsidize the touring. It just costs too much to tour! Hopefully I'll hook up with a record label that can help me deal with that.

Cosmik: I hate to bring Eminem into this, but I just did. There's almost a weird triangle between you, Dido and Eminem. Em sampled Dido and launched her career into a new level, yet on Radio Free Brooklyn, you say you're glad your flavor strayed away from the mainstream and into your own style. So, what's your stance on Emenim and mainstream in general, and how does it affect you?

Pete: I would say that Em's success is due mainly to the fact that he strayed away from the mainstream too. You have to remember that when he started out, he was pretty grimy. People felt him, point blank. You could almost say that Eminem didn't go mainstream, mainstream went Eminem. The same might be true of Dido. When I first got offered the gig to be her DJ, I took it, in part, because I hadn't really heard music like hers before. I mean, of course you can hear influences in it but she has a different take on things. Mainstream means popular acceptance to me. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. I believe that if I had the type of exposure that Dido and Eminem have had, I would be selling tons and tons more copies of Radio Free Brooklyn and Camouflage Is Relative. Access to that kind of exposure is solely a matter of money. Since I don't have that kind of money and I'm not signed to a label that does, I don't think of mainstream success as having a lot to do with me. It's just not my world. For the same reason, I don't think much about what goes on in country clubs. If I'm not hanging out there, it doesn't involve me!

Cosmik: Do you think one day you could find that sort of exposure through Internet publications? Certainly a lot of unknown bands and groups have made more of a dent with the help of the Internet and dedicated fan bases.

Pete: That's a good question. I know a few people who rely on internet publications for information about new music, but I wouldn't say that most of my friends do. I definitely don't think they hurt. I'm curious to see if people use websites more for new music discovery in the future. In the meantime, I think that online music publications have more potential than what is being tapped.

Cosmik: On the song "Final," you talk about an ex-girlfriend. Is it the same one as from "Toothbrush"?

Pete: I'm not at liberty to say!

Cosmik: [Laughs.] We'll leave that at that then! Can you tell me about some of the guest spots on the album? There's quite a bit of extra talent.

Pete: All the guest appearances are by friends of mine that I personally think people should be more aware of. The Real Live Show is a live hip hop band from New York that plays in the same circuit as me. Maya Azucena is an amazingly talented singer/songwriter who is blowing up the New York underground. X-Kid, from Seattle, is the first producer I ever worked with, back in, like, 1987 or something. He has always been one of my mentors. Blowout, of Turntable Anihilists, is the DJ in my live band and also a super talented M.C. Brian Jackson is Gil Scott Heron's right hand man and co-wrote many of the songs that made Gil Scott famous.

Cosmik: What do you think about file trading networks? Do you think that it's helped you in any way by exposing you to new people, or has it hurt you by dropping sales?

Pete: I'm not sure how I feel about file sharing networks. It seems to me that they don't necessarily help artists that much because you have to go looking for an artist on a file sharing network. That means that the person searching already knows that he or she wants the track but also knows that he or she doesn't want to pay for it. In that case, the hard work of introducing the artist to that person is already done, so the file sharing network only represents a lost sale for the artist.

That isn't to say that I'm opposed to free downloads, but it only does me good when it's in the context of introducing new listeners to what I do. That's why I have free downloads on my website. If you're on my site because you Googled the words, "underground hip hop" and my site came up, I want to offer some samples of my music so you can decide if you dig it enough to buy the album. If you decide you dig it and then use a file sharing network to find the rest of my album then I'm basically spending a lot money so that you can listen to my music. People don't think about this from the artist's perspective. I'm paying to maintain a website. I'm paying to produce, record, master and manufacture CDs. I'm paying my band every time we perform. If I don't sell any CDs, I literally won't be able to afford to continue to do those things anymore. If my music isn't profitable then I need to get a day job. If I get a day job, I make a lot less music and definitely don't put energy into making it available to people. And, say what you want about big record labels, all those costs are taken out of the earnings of the artists so musicians are still -- in fact, even more -- screwed when they have record deals and fans download their music instead of buying it.

On the other hand, I would be overjoyed if a million people went to my website and downloaded the songs I've posted there. It would mean that a lot of people were aware of me. I would just hope that, eventually, they would buy the album. I guess that's why I put so much into the album artwork with the lyrics and illustrations and whatnot. I want people to feel like they're getting something for their money.

Cosmik: Now that we're living in a post-election USA, are you going to try even harder to bring the Bush Regime down? [Sound clip: "Old News."]

Pete: I doubt it! I mean, that seems relatively futile. I think it makes more sense to throw my energy into connecting people, which is something my music can be good for. I think if people of the red state persuasion and people of the blue state persuasion spent more time together, we'd open up the communication lines and be less divided. The power structure in the U.S. is truly designed to divide and conquer. I'd like to put my energy into breaking down those divisions for the long term good rather than get Bush out for the short term good.

© 2005 - Jeremy Barker