After a recent gig outside Eugene, on Fern Ridge Reservoir at Richardson Park, we had the opportunity to talk with three of the Zen Tricksters four members. At a pivotal point, with the departure of veteran keyboardist Rob Baracco, Rob, guitarist Jeff Matteson and bassist Klyph Black spoke of their music and their futures.

Cosmik: Jeff, you and Rob are founding members...is that right?

Jeff: Well, actually I was the founding member. I am the only one left from the original lineup, which started as The Volunteers. Rob came aboard actually about 11 years ago. At that point we were already The Zen Tricksters.

Cosmik: Okay. So what is your take on Robs departure?

Jeff: Well, it's a major loss to the band you know. We've built up so much playing time together, as well as personal relationship stuff. We finish each others thoughts musically all the time from playing together so much. But you know, change is good sometimes too. We are definitely going to miss him and it's going to be a big adjustment.

Cosmik: So, as far as new members...do you have new members picked out?

Jeff: Yes. Actually, this was Robs last show today.. and we are playing starting Wednesday in Seattle, with the new lineup. Actually, we just played the last two nights, back on the East coast, with the new lineup.

Cosmik: And was Rob with you?

[Pictured: Rob Barraco.]

Jeff: No. Without Rob. But, they actually had prior commitments, and Rob agreed to do this show with us too. It was nice. So we got to play a last show with him on the East coast, as well as the West coast, so it worked out nice in that sense too.

Cosmik: Right...

Jeff: Our old drummer, David Diamond, will be coming back on rhythm guitar. He's a great singer and songwriter too. Then we have Jason Crosby who plays keyboards and electric fiddle....and trumpet. We haven't actually used the trumpet.

Klyph: Yeah, he hasn't actually pulled it out yet...

Jeff: And he writes too..

Cosmik: So, you are going to be a five piece now, and with more diversity in instrumentation?

Jeff: Yeah.

Jeff: Dave also plays bass, so last night we did a tune and Kylph got to play guitar and Dave played bass.

Klyph: Yeah, it was cool..

Cosmik: Every bass player loves that break huh?!

Klyph: Yeah!

Jeff: Everybody gets to switch around, and of course Dave is a drummer so he'll be able to be percussion with Joe. (Trickster drummer, Joe Chirco) So, we haven't even began to tap into the possibilities.

Klyph: Yeah, we haven't even scratched the surface of what we could really do yet. It was a big adjustment trying to find the time between our touring schedule and the guys who we are replacing Rob with, their touring schedule..

Jeff: Anytime you find really good musicians, they're working, you know. so...(laughs) it's not like they have oodles of time.

Cosmik: Who have they been out with?

Jeff: David has been playing with Leo Nocentelli of the Meters.. and Jason plays with Oteil Burbridge from the Allman Brothers Band...and actually right now, he just got back from the BB King blues tour with Susan Tedeschi, so he's been a very busy boy.

Cosmik: Cool. Sounds like he will be even more busy huh?

Jeff: Yeah.

Cosmik: You are definitely picking up some talent then.

Jeff: Yeah yeah. Dave, he's been playing himself since he was two.

Cosmik: How about yourselves? How long have you guys been playing together?

Klyph: I have been in the band six years.

Cosmik: And how long ago did you form the Tricksters?

[Pictured: Jeff Matteson.]

Jeff: It formed out of a band called The Volunteers that started in 1979, so that would be 21 years. And it became the Zen Tricksters about 12 years ago, I guess.

Cosmik: Regarding the new members...how about vocal strengths? I know your well rounded vocals have been really great. I know Rob was a key vocalist and I know you do some good vocals too, Kylph.

Klyph: Thanks. Actually when Dave was the drummer, he sang in the band too. On the first CD he sings, and now he's coming up front and singing.

Jeff: He's a great singer. He's got a great range of style.

Cosmik: Really keep those 3 part harmonies going then huh?

Jeff: Yes. Actually Jason sings too.

Klyph: So we'll get some four part stuff going..

Cosmik: Oh yeah? Right on!

Jeff: It is very exciting because there are so many possibilities. It's just going to take time to explore.

Cosmik: So what was the process in pulling in these new members?

Klyph: Calling them up and asking them if they want to play. (laughs) Jeff: Well, we already knew them and those two guys were playing together in a band. Dave had a solo project called Pozzyghuru, and they were doing his original stuff and doing some of these other side things together, you know, playing with Leo (Nocentelli), and I think Oteil.

Klyph: So, we knew them and they seemed like such a great package you know...and since Robs shoes are so hard to fill, we thought, why not bring two guys in and make it even more exciting.

Cosmik: Good move.

Jeff: Yeah.

Cosmik: Okay, we want to know about the first Church of Phun.

Klyph: What do you want to know them?

Cosmik: What is your association with it?

Jeff: Well, we have been sort a the house band for the east coast chapter of the First Church of Phun..... sort of an ongoing experiment in ... uhh .. collective consciousness and fun type thing...it's a very a participatory thing.

Cosmik: Yeah. Well we caught Mr. Phun G Badillion at your show in Eugene. (everyone laughs)

Jeff: Yes, that was very interesting... those rabbi go-go boots...

Cosmik: Did he come from the East coast chapter of the First Church of Phun?

Klyph: Phun G Badillion? Yeah, he is our erstwhile leader. He lives out here now....originally from North Hampton, MA, but I think he is pretty much moving out here...a Portlandian now.

Cosmik: Yeah, that leads me to another question....I have heard of Portland referred to as your "second" home. Can you tell us a little about your connection with Portland?

Klyph: Well, we started playing the New Year Eve shows. That was the thing that really kinda started it out for us, before we were really playing clubs here.

Jeff: Actually, John Duarka, (Phun G Badillion), and Dan Cohenpeltier, who owns Think Good Thoughts, in Portland , brought us out here 5 1/2 years ago. At first, we were like, "who's gonna come see us, we've never played on the west coast before, let alone in Portland?" They managed to promote the thing and it was a tremendous success and that got us started.

Klyph: Incredible fun too. Yeah, all those shows were great.

Jeff: And so like I said, we come out here and we have extended family here now.

Klyph: Everyone takes good care of us out here. They really make you feel like you are part of the family.

Jeff: And our music has been accepted so unconditionally, our original music, and we just love coming out here. We are always out several times a year (to the west coast)..and its like a homecoming for us.

Cosmik: Regarding your Dead covers and that whole association. Aside from your original material, how did Jerrys death and the demise of the Dead affect your career, other than the obvious sadness and sense of loss?

Jeff: Well obviously, we have been doing it for so many years.. It wasn't some kind of a band wagon we jumped on or anything. But, before Jerry passed on, it sort of served as a place for the Deadheads to get together when the Dead weren't in town. After Jerry died, it became even more important for the people to share that experience and hear those tunes and feel that kind of energy again. So it became more important in a way.

Cosmik: It just found its place then?

Jeff: Yeah. It just naturally found a different meaning. Even more valid maybe, I don't know. People certainly come up and thank us all the time for giving them a little taste of that which they crave so much. That is really meaningful to us. It's really nice to hear.

Cosmik: It's good to keep it going and it is a nice thing to mix it in with your originals.

Jeff: Yeah, well you know that it is not so much about being a traditional "clone band". We want to play those tunes because they are great tunes and they need to be played and they need to be kept alive. But very much in the spirit of the Dead, it's always about moving forward too, and having new songs and exploring new phases.

Klyph: And growing ourselves.

Jeff: So, you know it has always been part of our concept to do original music from day one... yeah 21 years ago.

[Pictured: Klyph Black.]

Klyph: We're not doing playing any of those tunes anymore (laughter)... You know we've got better ones since then but we have always done a mixture of Dead and original music.

Cosmik: Well, your jams are just phenomenal.

Klyph & Jeff: Well, thank you.

Cosmik: I believe I heard that one of the members of the Dead had said, they were unable, in the studio, to do what you guys have been able to do in the studio, as far as jamming.

Jeff: Well, Rob and I, as you know, got to play with Phil Lesh and that was Phil's comment. He heard our CD, which was all of our original music. It wasn't Grateful Dead music. He said he was really impressed with our ability to jam in the studio. He claimed that was something the Dead was never able to do to his satisfaction. So, that was very flattering. He basically chose us based on our original music and our ability to jam. A lot of people would just assume it's because we knew the songs already or something like that, but that wasn't really what it was about. I think he was rather shocked at how well we knew the Dead songs. (laughter)

Rob: (Rob walks in...) What are you talking about?

Jeff: Phil...he picked us on the basis of hearing our CD.

Rob: Oh yeah right, he had no idea.

Jeff: He didn't really know the extent of how well we knew the songs.

Rob: We knew them better then he did! (laughter)

Cosmik: I have a question for Rob if he doesn't mind.

Rob: No comment!...(much laughter)

Cosmik: Do you have other projects going on, aside from the Phil and Friends Fall Tour?

Rob: Nothing.. nothing definite. I mean I talked to a couple of guys about maybe doing really small stuff. I mean no extended touring or anything like that, just like a gig here and there. Nothing definite. Who knows if it will ever happen. You know people talk.. so.. but no definite plans. I gotta keep playing though you know.

Cosmik: But you are doing the fall tour (w/ Phil Lesh)?

Rob: Fall tour... Oh yes. The hardest part about all of this , is the fact that for 11 years.. I don't think we've had more than two weeks off at a time, at any given moment. So its like.. all of the sudden i am going to have all of this time, where I am not playing live and its frightening. Cause I don't want to lose the edge of playing live. When you do it, you keep an edge going. I have my keyboard coming out here in a couple of days, and I'm gonna set it up and I just got this thing in my head where I am going to play everyday, and I'm gonna work, cause if I don't , my playing is going to fall apart.

Cosmik: So , you'll be here on the west coast for a while then huh?

Rob: Yeah, for a little while. Yes.

Cosmik: Regarding the jamming, I've noted some pretty complex time signatures in the past. At the EMU show last winter in Eugene, there was something going on , like.. 11/8? Almost with a middle eastern sound you know.

Jeff: Very possible... Well , you know, a lot of the time, the jams are just that. It's completely spontaneous and we might fall into a particular time signature. Sometimes we're actually superimposing them at different times over each other.

Rob: More times than not that happens and all of a sudden you'll have somebody who might be playing in 7, somebody playing just regular 4 beat, and somebody might be playing 11, and all of the sudden, there's just this moment where it hits and your in a time. Sometimes your not even thinking about what the time is, you're just going with the flow of it, the rhythm of it, and afterwards you listen to the tape and.. ohh.. its doing something in 11....WOW man!.. you can't believe that. You knew you were doing something that was odd, but, you can't think about it, cause once you start thinking about it, its gone.

[Pictured: Joe Chirco.]

Jeff: Yeah, once you start thinking about it, you're not in the moment.

Rob: Yeah, you have to allow the moment, or else, you're over.

Jeff: From playing in different time signatures in a premeditated way, you get more comfortable with the length phrases and stuff like that, so then it just pretty naturally comes out in your playing.

Rob: Yeah, 7 and 11 are particularly easy to play in, cause they just have a flow to them...and uhh....5 is kinda cool, it's a little abrupt, but its a kind of cool thing.

Klyph: Six is really cool too...

Rob: Yeah six!

Jeff: You can do so many permutations of 3 against 4, and 3 against 2,(two is technical you know).. that's actually the basis of all African music.

Rob: Right! African is poly-rhythmic because they are always doing a 3 against 2 and its really easy to follow. You can stand on this one place, and actually feel the both of them going on. You're kinda teetering you know.. that's the most fun...when it gets into that.. You got some guys that are just playing in the two and the four, and the rest are playing in three, so it's really cool. That's the most fun for me. . when that stuff's happening.

Cosmik: Yeah, I was just curious on how that comes about. How that's instigated in the jam process.. those time signature changes.

Everyone: Yeah you just don't think...just by feel really.... Don't think.. Don't think.....(laughter)

Jeff: Going for interesting rhythmic ideas, otherwise you just end up with long strings of triplets or something like that... (lots of laughter)

Rob: Particularly with this band though, its like somebody comes up with a germ of an idea, and everybody runs with it. That's what happens when you play together for a really long time. It's like a virus...there's no cure for it.

Cosmik: It just happens...

Klyph: Yeah, and you know , it's terminal..(laughs)

Rob: Kinda like the West Nile fever....

Jeff: There you go!

Cosmik: Where do you guys go from here?

Klyph: Jimbos! (a local friends house.. much laughter)

Jeff: No, our next gig is at the Tractor Tavern in Seattle, and Thursday, in Vancouver, Saturday at the Crystal Ballroom ..etc, etc.... (lots of laughs, arguing over dates...) Here you go.....(Jeff hands over the tour date list)

Cosmik: Thank you. Well, we sure appreciate it guys. Again, its great. I've sure been enjoying your music for some time now and I hope to hear a lot more. Thanks.

Everyone: And thank you guys very much as well.


© 2000 - Tim and Ananda Owen
Photographs by Tim Owen