Interview by Shaun Dale

"I feel that when you have something that you believe in all the way, you create an audience. Whether it was a jazz club or not, I found a place where they had a piano and we played there and drew the crowd. People will come out when there's something to hear." -- Les McCann

Already established as one of the leading lights on the soul jazz scene of the 1960s, Les McCann became an international jazz superstar with the release of Swiss Movement, recorded at the 1968 Montreux Jazz Festival with the late Eddie Harris. The album generated that rarest of all jazz events, a multi-million selling hit single, "Compared To What," and guaranteed both McCann and Harris permanent pillars in the jazz pantheon.

There was a lot more to Les McCann than that show in Switzerland, though, both before and after. As a musician, he moved comfortably from one jazz style to the next, demonstrating impressive chops from bop to fusion, from vocals to virtually any kind of keyboard he puts his hands to. As a friend, mentor and producer, he gained exposure for artists like Lou Rawls, Monty Alexander, Richard "Groove" Holmes and Roberta Flack. As a comprehensively creative artist, he's carved out a fine reputation as a painter and photographer in addition to his musical reknown.

When his ability to play was devastated in recent years by a crippling stroke and carpal tunnel syndrome, McCann's creative drive went on. He returned to the stage as a leader while still limited to the use of a single finger, moved by his ever present desire to communicate the love that inspires his music. Subsequent and ongoing therapy has restored much of his ability to play, and he continues an active tour schedule when not at home in Van Nuys, California, where he composes and records in his home studio.

The McCann touch has attracted the attention of contemporary artists including De La Soul, Pete Rock, Mobb Deep and the Lords Of The Underground, who are just a few of those who have featured Les McCann samples on their recent output. His Atlantic Records producer, Joel Dorn, has begun to reissue some classic McCann sides on his new 32 Records label, bringing the rich legacy of Les McCann to an ever growing audience. I caught up to Les McCann at home as he prepared for yet another European adventure.

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Cosmik: Has it been a busy summer for Les McCann?

McCann: Well, summer season is when most of the the things happen. We just came back from Croatia, and a couple other European cities, then we went to Colorado, up in the mountains for a jazz festival, then Kentucky and Philadelphia, then two days ago home from San Francisco. So every weekend a little something. I'm getting stronger every day, so it's good stuff.

Cosmik: So the therapy is going well? You're able to play more?

McCann: Yes, my fingers are able to work again, and everyday I'm doing something I wasn't able to do the day before.

Cosmik: That's fantastic news. Now, when are you coming to Seattle?

McCann: I don't know. That's one of our top areas to go to, but sometimes they dont hire people up there unless you've got a hot record out.

Cosmik: Well, hopefully things will heat up now with 32 Records getting into the catalog a little bit. Your relationship with Joel Dorn has been renewed there, first with How's Your Mother? and now with some of the Altantic albums.

McCann: Yes. From what I hear, there's a great reaction to How's Your Mother, and now he's got a couple other things out, one called 20 Special Fingers.

Cosmik: Which has Much Les on it, your first album with Joel, and there's Layers.

McCann: A deep favorite.

Cosmik: Layers is your favorite?

McCann: One of my favorites.

Cosmik: Well, it's a special album, your first foray into fusion. Which points something out. The easy label to put on les Mccann is soul jazz, but you've done so much - acoustic, electric, with strings, latin percussion, fusion...

McCann: Dixieland bands, hillbilly bands, every configuration.

Cosmik: Everything back to the Dunbar High School Marching Band...

McCann: There you go.

Cosmik: So is there a common denominator? A thread that runs through all the music that is Les McCann, that makes it all make sense.

McCann: Of course. Love. Of the music, of the audience, of my life. Of all that is my life.

Cosmik: And you've expressed that both through the music you've made and through other music you've brought to us. Through the years, you've been one of the major talent scouts in popular music, introducing artists like Lou Rawls, Groove Holmes, Roberta Flack.

McCann: Well, that's part of the whole evolution of my life, being open, learning things, having experiences, meeting people, getting feelings about certain things. The whole thing, life, is the event. I don't plan anything, but I trust this love, that what am recieving is guidance within that's right on.

Cosmik: Well, many of the artists you've found have really been outside the jazz scene, in the strict sense. For instance, how were you introduced to Lou Rawls, who's seen as primarily an R&B singer?

McCann: Well, a man came to me, who had signed me with my record company at the time, which was World Pacific. He had signed me without really having it checked out and he got in a little trouble for doing it. After they found out my record was selling and everything, they accepted me, but at the same time they got rid of him. When he went on to Capitol Records and was first presented with this new young singer, Lou Rawls, he wanted to return a favor to me. This was Nick Venet, very prominent in the music business in more ways than were known to me. He passed away a couple of years ago, but he was very well known for things he did for a whole lot of people. I meet people every day that I wish I could do something for, but I'm also now spending time working on things I'd like to do that I haven't done. So I'm not focused on other people now, except when I'm performing and spreading the love in the ways that I want to relate to other people.

Cosmik: So the next Les McCann discovery isn't on the immediate horizon?

McCann: No, I'll just know it when I find it.

Cosmik: And it's time for Les McCann to discover more about Les McCann.

McCann: That's for sure. That's every day. That's the most important thing.

Cosmik: So you came out of Kentucky, got into the San Francisco scene while you were in the Navy and then moved to Los Angeles. This was just after the glory days of the Central Avenue scene. What was the LA scene like when you got there.

McCann: I don't know. When I was in the Navy I was able to get out into town and get into things. When I got to LA, I was more focused on going to school. When there was an opportunity to get out and see some music, I did, but clubs in LA come and go quite often. But there were many people I went to see. It was the whole experience of going to school, working, struggling to make it, getting along with people, girlfriends, musicians, bands. Learning about all those things that I now know what to do with, you understand.

Cosmik: But when you started playing around, were there a lot of places? Because by the seventies, when I lived in LA, there were relatively few places in LA to go and hear jazz...

McCann: Well, I feel that when you have something that you believe in all the way, you create an audience. Whether it was a jazz club or not, I found a place where they had a piano and we played there and drew the crowd. People will come out when there's something to hear.

[Pictured: Leroy Vinnegar and Les McCann]

Cosmik: I know one of the first people you played with was (bassist) Leroy Vinnegar, who we just lost a few days ago...

McCann: Yes we did. He was my next door neighbor, and we made a classic record together, Swiss Movement, and I'm thankful for his gift in my life.

Cosmik: He's on Much Les, too, and a number of your records.

McCann: In the beginning, yes, several.

Cosmik: Swiss Movement was a breakthrough for you. Did you have a following in Europe before that Montreux festival?

McCann: Well, I'd been there with my trio many times, and had gone through several records that had sold quite well in Europe. Then there was a long period when I hadn't gone there, but in signing with Atlantic Records and getting involved with Joel Dorn, who was also involved with Eddie Harris, he knew we were both going to Europe. It was my coming home, I hadn't been back there for awhile. Joel asked that we get together. Basically he allowed us to handle it the way we knew how to do it, and that's how that record came to be.

Cosmik: And the result was one of those jazz albums that people who only know a half a dozen jazz albums will probably know.

McCann: That's true. It was a great moment in my life.

Cosmik: And it exposed a lot of people to Les McCann the singer, but that was really where you got your first recognition. You won a Navy talent show and got a spot singing on the Ed Sullivan show.

McCann: Yes, I was on the Ed Sullivan show, and had done some other things, but I hadn't really given credence to my singing until later on when I got to Atlantic records.

Cosmik: I'm surprised people hadn't noticed that bit of your resume and pushed your singing a lot earlier.

McCann: There were people saying it to me all along, but I never went for it.

Cosmik: What did you sing to win the talent show?

McCann: Oh, I sang (sings) "What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in, it's almost like being in love..." Which is probably something that Nat Cole sang.

Cosmik: And the rest is history. Who's in the current band lineup?

McCann: There are five of us, and the band is called Les McCann and His Magic Band. I have a young guitarist named David Zeiher, another David, my bass player, a young musician from France, David Levray, a great bass player. I have a drummer named Matt Scott, he's on loan, and my main man is Keith Anderson, a saxophone player from Dallas. He flies in and we hook up.

Cosmik: So you're spread out, it's a little bit of work to get the band together.

McCann: We get together because we really like playing with each other and our rehearsal and development is on the bandstand.

Cosmik: There was an interruption about three years ago when you had the stroke.

McCann: Yes, but it was a truly great experience, being in the hospital, and having the people of Germany, in the little town I was in, the way that they treated me and showed me human love as I had never seen before. It showed me that what I believe in is true, what I know about is true, which is my own lessons as I meet people around the world, have conversations with people, and find the people of the world seeking the very same thing, which is to be loved, period. So I'm just glad I'm able to spread this music that I love with these young musicians that I have.

Cosmik: As I've listened to a lot of music from across your career, if I've found a common thread, it's a kind of physicallity. You've always played jazz you can dance to.

McCann: Amen. That's one of my intentions, to get you moving. We want to move, so join us. It's an important part of my life, period.

Cosmik: Well, it seems very hard to separate your life and your music.

McCann: There is no separation.

Cosmik: But you do much more than just the music. You paint, and you're a photographer...

McCann: It's all the same thing. Creation. It's the love. We have the power to focus our interests on whatever we want to do. That's the beauty of being human. You have the choice of doing what you like to do or just being miserable.

Cosmik: Someone was working on archiving and publishing your photoghraphs.

McCann: There was a company in Seattle that contacted me after meeting me at another photographer's house, but we never hooked up. But I'm waiting to do that with them now, because I'm ready.

Cosmik: Someone in Seattle? These Seattle people are gonna have to get off the stick!

McCann: The Seattle people are holding my stuff up! (laughs)

Cosmik: We're just too laid back up here, I guess.

McCann: It's that rain.

Cosmik: Yeah, we had 31 days of consecutive rain this summer.

McCann: It was the same way in Colorado, but when we got there, the sun came out. I want to bring some sun to Seattle! Bring me up! I like Seattle. I've got many artist friends, and I like the water, the Sound. It's a little cold for me up there, but I've also know a few ladies that might come keep me warm.

Cosmik: But first there's Europe. How long will that trip be?

McCann: Until it get's too cold. It's all booked, but I'm still testing myself and my ability to travel, since my stroke. It affects me and my ability to walk. There are days when I can, and days when I can't, and I have to have somebody with me most times to make sure I don't fall. And it's going to get cold.

Cosmik: And that's all complicated by carpal tunnel...

McCann: I don't have that no more. All cured. I will sing the praises of, and you have to write this, Dr. Brian Bronk, a young man here in Los Angeles who has a treatment that cures things like that. For piano players and musicians it's beyond belief. He's saved many people from carpal tunnel operations.

Cosmik: I'll definitely write that, because that's great news. That can be debilitating, not only for musicians, but for writers, too.

McCann: You're right. Artists, painter, anybody who has that repetitive motion. And he's been my life saver musically. I'm totally in love with music again, and anytime I play with the band, they come over and say "Wow, we heard you man!" They see the improvement. I see the results, and can deal with the work because he's doing it because he loves me, and loves the music.

Cosmik: Back to the reissues for a minute, the new one, Layers, was a project by Joel's son Adam Dorn, and they put it out on the 32 Groove imprint instead of 32 Jazz.

McCann: I heard that, but I didn't know what they meant.

Cosmik: Well, Adam works as a disc jockey, under the name Mocean Worker...

McCann: I know he does that, but I didn't know what they meant by 32 Groove.

Cosmik: I think what he's saying is that this is the kind of music that's inspiring the young mixers, to the point of literally taking pieces of the music...

McCann: Which has happened about 30 times so far.

Cosmik: And in the notes, he says this is the album that got him excited about synthesizers. The notes also talk about your own process in making the album, which involved laying down layer upon layer of sound...

McCann: Which is exactly how I paint.

Cosmik: Really. Man, I'd love to see your paintings. We've got to get a gallery show for you in Seattle, too.

McCann: We need the jazz musicians gallery, where each musician that's an artist gets a wing, and everybody who comes to the city can relate to that.

Cosmik: And Layers was a 32 track recording, I believe the first one that was done.

McCann: Yes. I hooked up two 16 tracks so we could play them at the same time, and then not long after that they came up with the 32 tracks on one machine.

Cosmik: So that was very pioneering studio work. As you've developed, how much has the studio become another instrument.

McCann: That's the only way I can get my stuff out into the world. The studio, in the beginning, was intimidating. Frightening. But then you learn, after a few years, that this is your baby as well as everything else. I just built my own studio lately, and I'm totally in love with it. I've got tons of stuff that, if I ever found a record company brave enough to put this stuff out, you'd be seeing some unbelievably wild stuff.

Cosmik: Well, 32 has been primarily a reissue label, but they've done some new stuff. Maybe we can convince Joel Dorn to step up and put some totally wild stuff on the street.

McCann: I would love to see them do it. I haven't said much, but I've been waiting on the moment. This is stuff that I've been working on for years. My band is called Les McCann and His Magic Band and I have what I call Less McCann and His Indoor Magic Band, which is stuff I've done here in the studio.

Cosmik: So there's still new Les McCann music to come.

McCann: If there's a company brave enough to do it, we can make a deal.

Cosmik: Which brings up the point that right now, companies aren't very brave. Do you pay much attention to what's coming out now, the so called "smooth jazz"?

McCann: It seems to be the only thing that's left on the radio in most cities. A little bit of the good stuff is left, but it comes and goes, so maybe in hearing this, it will be the bridge to the next level.

Cosmik: Do you have any thoughts about that kind of music? The stuff on the radio?

McCann: It's meant to be palatable. It's not meant to be the focus, something you sit and listen to. It's meant to be be something they can do their work to, or eat their dinner too. But they want to put the jazz in categories. Creativity is creativity. I always suggest to people, go out and go to the record store and don't take someone's word for something. Go listen to several things and make up your own mind. Every group and every jazz musician is totally different than the last one you heard. The music will be different every night. What can be more exciting than to listen to something that is spontaneously new and fresh.

Cosmik: And spontaneity is what is missing, more and more. And without that, I don't know how you can call it jazz. To me that defines jazz.

McCann: Yes, I agree. Spontaneity and feeling, to me. To me, jazz is about discovery. And you're not even allowed to make a mistake, anymore, because everthing is supposed to be the way you learned it in class, as you work on these riffs. But that's only a stepping point, as are all the other levels of what we do creatively. People move on from wherever.

Cosmik: Hopefully they'll take that next step and push a little harder on the creative end.

McCann: They may not know, so people like you and people who know have to ask for it, have to request it, have to demand it, have to promote it themselves, you know, being part of keeping it where people can hear the difference and make those choices.

Cosmik: And you say you're looking for a record company with the courage to do something new, but God knows we need radio stations with the courage to play something new.

McCann: Oh definitely. That's the thing, you might find a record company that says "We'll do it, but who'll play it?" Fortunately, I believe that many things will happen as a result of the internet, that will make music available from people who are not with record companies available to people who want to test and taste and experience other musics.

Cosmik: Our magazine has the equivelant of a radio show on the internet where we program amazing things next together. You might hear Mozart and Howling Wolf back to back.

McCann: Amen!

Cosmik: So you're on the internet?

McCann: Yeah, from time to time. When I can't take it anymore I get off. I base what I do on how I'm physically feeling, because I'm really trying to get as well as I can.

Cosmik: Well, next week, this will be online at a site called cosmik.com, so if you get online in September, be sure to check it out.

McCann: Wow, cosmik.com, huh?

Cosmik: Yeah, for Cosmik Debris, the title of a Frank Zappa song.

McCann: Frank Zappa! The man. He and I were voted the sexiest men in the world.

Cosmik: Really? Who voted?

McCann: Oh, the women of the world. That was one of the most beautiful dreams I ever had.

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Shaun Dale wishes to thank Kevin Calabro of 32 Records for his diligent efforts in making this interview possible and, of course, Les McCann, for making it wonderful.


(C) 1999 - Shaun Dale

Have a listen to the jazz artistry of the great Les McCann. All you need is a real audio player. If you don't have one, snag one here.

I Can Dig It (from How's Your Mother): 28.8k --- 56k

Harlem Buck Dance Street (from Layers): 28.8k --- 56k

Doin That Thing (from How's Your Mother): 28.8k --- 56k

I Am In Love (from How's Your Mother): 28.8k --- 56k